Justin, Wow, you are actually pretty smart. You can thank the democrats in our state for being one of the most labor friendly places to work in the nation. You can also thank them for one of the highest minimum wages in the nation. Again, you can also thank them for establishing one of the most business friendly environments in our nation, for Boeing, Kenworth truck, Microsoft, Starbucks, and Nintendo wouldn't be around here if it weren't. And for our property values (which in case you haven't caught on yet are some of the highest in the nation) its that way because everyone wants to come here to live and work.

So for all of the above, I will consider your idiotic post thanks to a democrat.

I have an idea, move to a state you probably consider Utopia, like Idaho, or Texas and then get back to us how shitty Washington is because of the Democrats.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:
Is it true that you don't get a title with a Cobra?

I have a title with my Cobra.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:
Justin, Wow, you are actually pretty smart. You can thank the democrats in our state for being one of the most labor friendly places to work in the nation. You can also thank them for one of the highest minimum wages in the nation. Again, you can also thank them for establishing one of the most business friendly environments in our nation, for Boeing, Kenworth truck, Microsoft, Starbucks, and Nintendo wouldn't be around here if it weren't. And for our property values (which in case you haven't caught on yet are some of the highest in the nation) its that way because everyone wants to come here to live and work.

So for all of the above, I will consider your idiotic post thanks to a democrat.

I have an idea, move to a state you probably consider Utopia, like Idaho, or Texas and then get back to us how shitty Washington is because of the Democrats.

Labor friendly for unions, YES, labor friendly for the small business owner trying to make it along, like the company I work for, NO. I dont thank them for the Highest RIPOFF of a minimum wage in this state, Minimun wages simply support either A) Dumbasses that cant make anything of themselves do to poor decisions B) People that CHOOSE to work in a field that only pays minimum wage or C) people who are young and unskilled. What it comes down to, in a free market system, you make what your worth. If your not worth a shit, Join a union or work at Mcdonalds, if you are, go it on your own and make something of it, that way you dont have to worry about minimum wage, unless you hire somebody unskilled of course... Not to mention all raising the minimum wage does is increase inflation.

Washington USED to be somewhat business friendly, thats why you saw businesses like the ones above succeed here. However, you have Had businesses like Boeing (a union strangled company) move elsewhere, taking thousands of jobs elsewhere. PACCAR (another union stangled company) has cut 53% of the jobs at the renton plant because production costs are higher there than the plants in Canada and Ohio. http://seattletimes.nwsource.c...393309_paccar15.html. Most of Microsofts cuts are in this area. http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.../archives/160121.asp
Most of Nintendos cuts are from this area as well. http://www.crunchgear.com/2007...t-to-layoff-numbers/. The only reason the companies are headquarted here is not because it is a business friendly place but simply because it would cost a HELL of a lot more to move the company. Obviously Boeing didnt think so...

And your right, these property values are VERY high.... In the seattle metro area.... not so much elsewhere, but that has more to do with the beauty in this state over the political climate. People move here form California all the time, because the Liberals/Commies/Socialists have screwed it up so bad there. Then they come here and Vote for the Liberals up here, and it screws things up worse!

The only thing that keeps me in this state is my family and the beauty, otherwise I would move somewhere where some commie wasnt trying to control everything I do!

Wow, I never thought I would hear that Bill Gates and Paul Allen keep their company here because the mountains are pretty. And Paccar didn't temporarily suspend production in Renton and send all of their production to Chilcote because of costs. They went from building 60+ over the road trucks a day to only building 3 off road trucks a day. Why? The cost of their workers wages were too high? Do you think that it might have more to do with the $5.50 a gallon diesel? I mean, the free market says that fuel is that expensive right? The truckers can't even afford to pay their fuel costs, but the free market economy chugs right along. And Exxon Mobil makes record profits. Get a clue.

As far as your rant on unions, you should just stay right where you are, because as your boss probably reminds you every day, "you are lucky to even have a job."

I love when Neo-cons like yourself start spewing sound bites too. "Free Market Economy, Capitalism, High production cost." We are now suffering from the effects of un-regulated "Capitalism" as you call it. Oh wait, were in this financial mess because people want to earn a livable wage and God forbid, have some medical insurance. Always try to pin it on the unions. I'm sure you couldn't possibly understand this, but union wages drive all wages higher. It has something to do with the supply and demand of labor and a little thing called market share. You should look into it. Your "merit" wages that you are so proud of are undoubtedly helped by the very union sector that your poor boss has to compete with if he wants to keep qualified employees.

In summary, just keep telling yourself that your lucky to have a job, your boss will be counting on it. Look at all of the tax breaks companies get to go offshore, and I can guarantee you that the beauty of our mountains mean little to thier decision to stay local. And maybe if you put as much effort into convincing your family how much better one of the red states is as you do in looking up and posting links to bolster your argument, then maybe you might convince them to leave. I think you would be a much happier person, and I can most certainly tell you that all of us Commie Fascist Wackos here in Washinton would be.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Aaron,

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:
Wow, I never thought I would hear that Bill Gates and Paul Allen keep their company here because the mountains are pretty. And Paccar didn't temporarily suspend production in Renton and send all of their production to Chilcote because of costs. They went from building 60+ over the road trucks a day to only building 3 off road trucks a day. Why? The cost of their workers wages were too high? Do you think that it might have more to do with the $5.50 a gallon diesel? I mean, the free market says that fuel is that expensive right? The truckers can't even afford to pay their fuel costs, but the free market economy chugs right along. And Exxon Mobil makes record profits. Get a clue.

As far as your rant on unions, you should just stay right where you are, because as your boss probably reminds you every day, "you are lucky to even have a job."

I love when Neo-cons like yourself start spewing sound bites too. "Free Market Economy, Capitalism, High production cost." We are now suffering from the effects of un-regulated "Capitalism" as you call it. Oh wait, were in this financial mess because people want to earn a livable wage and God forbid, have some medical insurance. Always try to pin it on the unions. I'm sure you couldn't possibly understand this, but union wages drive all wages higher. It has something to do with the supply and demand of labor and a little thing called market share. You should look into it. Your "merit" wages that you are so proud of are undoubtedly helped by the very union sector that your poor boss has to compete with if he wants to keep qualified employees.

In summary, just keep telling yourself that your lucky to have a job, your boss will be counting on it. Look at all of the tax breaks companies get to go offshore, and I can guarantee you that the beauty of our mountains mean little to thier decision to stay local. And maybe if you put as much effort into convincing your family how much better one of the red states is as you do in looking up and posting links to bolster your argument, then maybe you might convince them to leave. I think you would be a much happier person, and I can most certainly tell you that all of us Commie Fascist Wackos here in Washinton would be.

I think its hilairous how pigeonhole me into a catagory and you have no idea who or what I am! But then again, thats what typical liberals without a clue, such as yourself, like to do.

My point was ALL of the cuts made by kenworth were HERE, Nowhere else. That has nothing to do with $5 diesel, which if you havent noticed, isnt anywhere near that anymore. They cut them here because it cost MORE to have a union stooge build something here, than somewhere else.

The free market doesnt SAY that fuel is any price, that is strictly do to consumers, If you have a better way of getting freight across country than a trucker thats paying $5 a gallon, use it. The oil companies dont control the price of oil, its a commodity, meaning its price is determined with supply and demand, refining is another story, we would be able to put more supply into the market if it wasnt for Commie-assed environmentalists blocking the building of refineries. The profits of Exxon-mobil dont mean a damn thing, they have no impact on you, use less fuel and their profits will go down. You get a clue.

My Boss Treats me very well, he knows My skills are worth it to him, and he compensates me accordingly, Thats the way it should be. Not a union saying that just because youve worked at a particular place for 40 years, you automatically know more than somebody that has worked in the field 4 years and is far more skilled in the mind and as a worker than the guy that has been there for 40 years. Your not rewarded if you are the best, your rewarded because your just you, and thats at everybody elses expense. The whole mindset is BS!

You can call me a Neo-CON all you want and Ill just laugh and laugh and laugh, cause you know what??? Im the real deal dude, I think the government should be minimal as possible, I dont need the republican party, and I sure as hell dont need the democrat party to make rules against me. Its a FACT that the reason we are in this mess goes right back to your buddy Barney Frank, with oversight over those "government" programs Fannie and Freddie. DOnt try and put this on the "Free Market" cause there was nothing free about the market, everything goes right back to government intervention. Had the government not stuck its big nose into the housing market, you wouldnt have had such things as subprime loans.

Its NOT the governments job to give you Healthcare, its NOT the job of the government to give you a house to live in, its NOT the goverments job to make sure your ass is wiped.

I dont have a problem with unions existing, they are what they are, but if it wasnt for the government getting all buddied up with them, they would fail, Can you tell me why that is???? Cause I know the answer.

Holy smokes Justin! It would take me all night to undo what years of your listening to O'Reilly and Rush have done.

You bounce all over like a gut shot rabbit.

We will most likely never agree, however I will address a few of your points.

If you think the price of oil, as a commodity is determined by supply and demand, you are truly cracked. The price is determined on the futures markets, by speculators. When oil was $155 a barrel, we were paying $5 a gallon. Profits were record high among the oil cartel. Demand has gone down considerably, crude has fallen to around $37 a barrel, we are still paying in the mid to high $2's, and wait, profit is now higher!!!! Any time demand falls, and supply increases, and relative price doesn't change, yet profit climbs, you should show some concern. But wait, Fox says its not connected, so it just must be something else. Your arguement, besides being factless, is garbage.

Your spewings about unions go to the first thing that most who know nothing about unions go to. You address seniority. Just one instance that suggests the contrary is that of the building trades. There is not one ounce of seniority in the unionized building trades. If you have a guy who's been doing it for 40 years, and is right at retirement (that's a little deal we have when we quit working at 58 or 60, and we still get a check, you should ask your boss about it) he is making the same wage as a 10 year guy who can work circles around him. That doesn't cater to the old fat lazy dudes you "un-represented" guys love to address. It is survival of the fittest, and then our union takes care of our guys. We constantly fund members in need. A member had a kid break his neck on a dirt bike not long ago, and the membership ponied up thousands of dollars to pay for the members missed time while he was taking care of his son. What a bunch of worthless, heartless assholes. Would your boss do that? I'm sure he would. Oh, and as a side note, the company that this guy worked for, when they found out that the membership gave the money, matched it. Of course, I'm sure they were going to do that anyway.

Continue on your hatred of those who choose to stand together in a union to demand better treatment. Just remember, you belong to a union, the good ole USA. You probably belong to another, the AMA. How about the NMA? The NRA? Those "unions" are all considered good. Funny how our corporatized society considers those great, but when it has to do with labor, its all bad. Follow the dollar Justin. Question everything. Look a little deeper. You might start to see things a little differently.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:
Holy smokes Justin! It would take me all night to undo what years of your listening to O'Reilly and Rush have done.

You bounce all over like a gut shot rabbit.

We will most likely never agree, however I will address a few of your points.

If you think the price of oil, as a commodity is determined by supply and demand, you are truly cracked. The price is determined on the futures markets, by speculators. When oil was $155 a barrel, we were paying $5 a gallon. Profits were record high among the oil cartel. Demand has gone down considerably, crude has fallen to around $37 a barrel, we are still paying in the mid to high $2's, and wait, profit is now higher!!!! Any time demand falls, and supply increases, and relative price doesn't change, yet profit climbs, you should show some concern. But wait, Fox says its not connected, so it just must be something else. Your arguement, besides being factless, is garbage.

Your spewings about unions go to the first thing that most who know nothing about unions go to. You address seniority. Just one instance that suggests the contrary is that of the building trades. There is not one ounce of seniority in the unionized building trades. If you have a guy who's been doing it for 40 years, and is right at retirement (that's a little deal we have when we quit working at 58 or 60, and we still get a check, you should ask your boss about it) he is making the same wage as a 10 year guy who can work circles around him. That doesn't cater to the old fat lazy dudes you "un-represented" guys love to address. It is survival of the fittest, and then our union takes care of our guys. We constantly fund members in need. A member had a kid break his neck on a dirt bike not long ago, and the membership ponied up thousands of dollars to pay for the members missed time while he was taking care of his son. What a bunch of worthless, heartless assholes. Would your boss do that? I'm sure he would. Oh, and as a side note, the company that this guy worked for, when the found out that the membership gave the money, matched it.

Continue on your hatred of those who choose to stand together in a union to demand better treatment. Just remember, you belong to a union, the good ole USA. You probably belong to another, the AMA. How about the NMA? The NRA? Those "unions" are all considered good. Funny how our corporatized society considers those great, but when it has to do with labor, its all bad. Follow the dollar Justin. Question everything. Look a little deeper. You might start to see things a little differently.

Ah more pigeonholing...

You obviously dont know what The futures market is, If you did, you would know that it goes hand and hand with supply and demand. The futures market is where you can buy goods without having to take hold of them until a certain point, at that point you can either store the goods or sell them. What happened is speculators kept buying oil and the price kept going up, They were in effect buying the oil (taking oil off of the market, or to make it simple for you, decreasing supply) then the price of oil would go up. It was said that 90% of the demand came from speculators buying and selling and never taking hold of the oil. The futures market was created to help farmers regulate the costs of feed and whatnot, and is a very outdated system. Regardless it still comes down to supply and demand. You were wrong again.

Gas prices are what they are because it still costs money to get the crude to the refinery, refine it, pipe it to a storage facility, and truck it to the station, so just because oil prices went down 400%, that doesnt mean gas prices are going to reflect that.

Like I said, if you dont like oil companies making profits, dont use oil.

More on the Ripoff that is Unions...
"(that's a little deal we have when we quit working at 58 or 60, and we still get a check, you should ask your boss about it)"

And who is paying for it????? well A) its either the person your doing the work for or B) The union members themselves or C) a combination of both. And guess what??? Its a requirement to pay it!!!! I should not have to pay a pension for somebody that is retired!!! That was their job to save for their retirement, not mine. Unions do nothing but force people to pay more for goods, because somebody "feels" they should make more money in a job that doesnt equate to it. They are a handicap for those who CANT.

The US isnt a union in the way you see a union, it is a union that takes hold of the fact that our constitution provides the protection of our rights to do as we please as individuals, and every state of the "union" supports that way opf thought within their borders". Your unions are strictly there to manipulate the labor market via blindly following numbers, instead of relying on the individual to make the decisions.

I dont need somebody to make my choices for me, therefore I wont join a union, because I would be one of the people holding up the institution for everybody else, And whats the point when I can do it myself.

quote:

Originally posted by Justin Anderson:
What happened is speculators kept buying oil and the price kept going up, They were in effect buying the oil (taking oil off of the market, or to make it simple for you, decreasing supply) then the price of oil would go up. It was said that 90% of the demand came from speculators buying and selling and never taking hold of the oil.

Good Lord....

Is that speculators affecting the price, or supply and demand?


Don't answer that. I don't want to make any more points tonight, just so that you can agree with them, and then tell me that I am wrong. Just a guess here, you don't have to answer, but are you by any chance a teen-ager?

As for your interest or lack there-of regarding unions, I wouldn't want to change your mind about them. When people who are looking out for only themselves get into unions it just weakens the entire system. We'll just have to wait 25 or 30 years to see who made the right bet.

I'll be sticking with mine.

For what it's worth, I do appreciate the witty debate. Most others just regress into insults and name calling.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:

quote:

Originally posted by Justin Anderson:
What happened is speculators kept buying oil and the price kept going up, They were in effect buying the oil (taking oil off of the market, or to make it simple for you, decreasing supply) then the price of oil would go up. It was said that 90% of the demand came from speculators buying and selling and never taking hold of the oil.

Good Lord....

Is that speculators affecting the price, or supply and demand?


Don't answer that. I don't want to make any more points tonight, just so that you can agree with them, and then tell me that I am wrong. Just a guess here, you don't have to answer, but are you by any chance a teen-ager?

As for your interest or lack there-of regarding unions, I wouldn't want to change your mind about them. When people who are looking out for only themselves get into unions it just weakens the entire system. We'll just have to wait 25 or 30 years to see who made the right bet.

I'll be sticking with mine.

For what it's worth, I do appreciate the witty debate. Most others just regress into insults and name calling.

Its the speculators affecting demand.... I figured you would understand that.......

No I am not a teen-ager, Far from it, and even if I was, what would it matter?

Like I said, I dont care if there are unions, Im fully in support of the right for unions to exist, but dont get the government involved in playing favors. Thats one of the biggest problems in this state.

I always enjoy a good debate.

HAHAHA this sounds like an SMC meeting about land! LOL! And Justin I have to call you out, dude you arent that far from being a teenager, I am 27 and I know that you are younger than I am. I think maybe its time to agree to disagree huh, but I will admit I had fun reading this exchange. And Aaron, is it weird having someone other than Ted on here busting your chops about the government?

LOL!!! I've been arguing with Ted for 3 years, and the only thing he has conceded is that he won't shoot me when I come out of retirement to do one of the PRO races. (I don't know if I believe him though.)

LOL!

Now that is funny! I went and played basketball last friday with Garret and I brought this site up and he said Ted does it all for fun? I plainly asked Garret to tell Ted not to hold anything against me on this site. The last thing I need is to be kicked out of Toes and the P.R.O. series. LOL

Yeah, were losing tracks at a blistering pace, and you go and piss the owner of one of the last ones off....

quote:

Originally posted by mx510:
HAHAHA this sounds like an SMC meeting about land! LOL! And Justin I have to call you out, dude you arent that far from being a teenager, I am 27 and I know that you are younger than I am. I think maybe its time to agree to disagree huh, but I will admit I had fun reading this exchange. And Aaron, is it weird having someone other than Ted on here busting your chops about the government?

Cmon man 24 is hardly a teen-ager.... My dads more of a teen-ager than me....

And of course Justin took Political Science all on his own... and shut his lib teachers up with the same facts we all Know to be true. I got where I am (not real wealthy,yet able to race most the times we want) from a non union life and a respectable dad and reputation. Hard work. look back at that period behind work. I grew into more money when a large union contractor wanted me and my dad's company. Then after years of dedication I became an office dink, yet left the union to appreciate the appreciation of recognition my company gives me. Dems can be pro union and still introduce bills that will get you fired if you try to unionize!

man i wish i could be 24 again, getting old sucks

The FACT is, that as always, all the political discussion on here and elsewhere is about the rights we lose as moto and off roaders we continue to lose are always introduced by a DEM. FACT.

Black market mini's ... Who's in with me? We can set up shop in Napa, Mendocino, Sonoma, and Humboldt Counties. They can do all kinds of illegal things there, and get away with it. Wait they all have the liberal adgenda there too.. Too bad the bike may have lead not herb.
Lead is as natural as the loam we wish to roost on each other, a natural element, formerly used in Bill and Ted's and Vern's school pencils.

Does not dirt contain that much lead nateraly? hey bill how about a soil types test?
510 how would you know you missed the last 2!! your input is greatly needed even if if your a coomie stooge This and most things posted by me are usualy in jest. Like my spellen its a joke.

I know I need to get to another meeting. I am just a loser . I take everything on here with a grain of salt, because as you know Vern everyone has there opinions on everything and it is cool that Eric has this site for us to spew our versions of what will fix society. As for me being a left winger or right winger, I am neither. On this last vote for the two most important I went Obama, and Rossi or as Dino said I am a Dinocrat. I think that all parties are evil really and only out for themselves but both sides have good points and bad. So there is my .02. I say as we are coming under attack from the government as a group of enthusiasts it is time to unite not separate because this guy over here wants unions and that guy over there doesnt. We are a small group guys, lets try to stick together and go ride. BRAAAAAAAAAAAP!