quote:

Originally posted by B Sharkey:

quote:

Originally posted by wheatley193:
My bad paul. Their are people at boeing that do work there ass off. Now just think if everyone one did. They would never be behind on orders. It must be extremely frustrating having to put up with these people at your work place. At least with my work I can tell them they are a peice of crap and fire them and not have to worry about the union getting invovled for firing someone that should have been fired a long time ago.

isnt that funny. i love how these non union guys think they all work hard. what a joke. you have bad apples on both sides but some dont seeit that way. i can tell you ive worked both and the union side has proveded my family alot better life.

Your right, there is bad apple on boths sides, but there is nobody there to gaurantee a job to the bad apple on the non-union side, most unions, however will.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:
Unfortunately Wheatley, people do not understand the building trades and they make statements that are plain and simply, wrong.

The first thing out of someone's mouth when they address unions is seniority, you know the protection of fat old lazy losers.

I'm sure there's lots of that going on in Local 86 right?

The building trades, along with many other unionized sectors of industry, are vastly different than what most who are against unions may think.

Aaron, I am in a building trade.

Im an HVAC fabricator, otheriwse known as sheet metal worker.

I know for a fact of several people who are hardcore union sheet metal workers, who have been through apprenticeships, and still cant hold a candle to what I can do.

Its not how a union works that is the problem, its the mindset it puts into the members heads that they cant do anything without their "brothers" that gives unions a bad name.

The only thing a union does is artificially control the labor market. Its supply and demand, in the end somebody has to pay for it.

Unions are no better than a monopoly corporation.

Small world.

You don't need to share it if you don't want to, but I'd sure be interested in knowing who you work for.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Aaron,

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:
And the Constitution is established to protect the rights of the people.

The Government is the people. Just like the union is it's members.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Which came first, the egg or the chicken?

The constitution just lays out the rights that every citizen inherently has, its doesnt give the rights or protect them.

The constitution directly lays out each amendment pertaining to an Individual citizen of the US.

There is no gaurantee for the government to provide any individual anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Justin Anderson:

quote:

Originally posted by B Sharkey:

quote:

Originally posted by wheatley193:
My bad paul. Their are people at boeing that do work there ass off. Now just think if everyone one did. They would never be behind on orders. It must be extremely frustrating having to put up with these people at your work place. At least with my work I can tell them they are a peice of crap and fire them and not have to worry about the union getting invovled for firing someone that should have been fired a long time ago.

isnt that funny. i love how these non union guys think they all work hard. what a joke. you have bad apples on both sides but some dont seeit that way. i can tell you ive worked both and the union side has proveded my family alot better life.

Your right, there is bad apple on boths sides, but there is nobody there to gaurantee a job to the bad apple on the non-union side, most unions, however will.

its really not any different. the empolyer can still fire if you screw up and after awhile no one will hire you if you have a bad reputation and youll be just sitting on that list. ive seen plenty of lazy non union guys so lets not get on this im better than you kick

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:


Small world.

You don't need to share it if you don't want to, but I'd sure be interested in knowing who you work for.

Duct Fabricators.

quote:

Originally posted by Justin Anderson:

The constitution just lays out the rights that every citizen inherently has, its doesnt give the rights or protect them.

The constitution directly lays out each amendment pertaining to an Individual citizen of the US.

There is no gaurantee for the government to provide any individual anything.

I can honestly say, I have no idea what you are trying to say.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:

quote:

Originally posted by Justin Anderson:

The constitution just lays out the rights that every citizen inherently has, its doesnt give the rights or protect them.

The constitution directly lays out each amendment pertaining to an Individual citizen of the US.

There is no gaurantee for the government to provide any individual anything.

I can honestly say, I have no idea what you are trying to say.

You stated that the constitution was established to protect the rights of the people.

I was saying that it wasnt. It just lays out the rights of the people.

quote:

Originally posted by Justin Anderson:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:
Unfortunately Wheatley, people do not understand the building trades and they make statements that are plain and simply, wrong.

The first thing out of someone's mouth when they address unions is seniority, you know the protection of fat old lazy losers.

I'm sure there's lots of that going on in Local 86 right?

The building trades, along with many other unionized sectors of industry, are vastly different than what most who are against unions may think.

Aaron, I am in a building trade.

Im an HVAC fabricator, otheriwse known as sheet metal worker.

I know for a fact of several people who are hardcore union sheet metal workers, who have been through apprenticeships, and still cant hold a candle to what I can do.

Its not how a union works that is the problem, its the mindset it puts into the members heads that they cant do anything without their "brothers" that gives unions a bad name.

The only thing a union does is artificially control the labor market. Its supply and demand, in the end somebody has to pay for it.

Unions are no better than a monopoly corporation.

Who are those "hardcore Union Sheet Metal Workers" that you know?

Honestly, its just people ive come across while being in the field.

I wouldnt be able to give you any names.

Take it for whats its worth.

I try to stay out of the political threads but this one is great and there are a lot of good posts here. I have worked for a union in the past and doubt I will ever again. That being said I agree with Wheatly that there are good and bad. I worked for Oak Harbor Freight Lines under teamsters as a maintenance supervisor and had to work with some of laziest people. It took an act of God to get someone fired. On the other end of the spectrum a very good friend of mine has worked for a hospital and in his case the union was badly needed. I think unions have good and bad things to them. It seems to just depend on what union and type of work. As for GM. I dont agree with the government interferring with a business or corporation but GM also didnt have to accept the money it borrowed from the government. Because GM did borrow from the government they now have to answer to them and I think they should have to its my tax dollars their using. I dont agree if the government is telling them to scrap SUV's and trucks but again they took the money from the government. As for the OP's question. No I couldnt retire right now and I actually dont ever intend to. My dad is 75 (will be 76 in June). He has retired from the Air Force (22 years in) and a steel mill and still runs an alarm system business back in Michigan and works full time for a casino maintaining their security systems. Not because he has to he just loves working. Me too so unless I was some how dibilitated and couldnt work I will work until I die. I do try to take some long vacations here and there though.

The Government and Taxes are like Teenagers and sex......... They just cant keep their hands off.