I thought it was time to bring this issue up for discussion as it has an effect on all of us as motorcycle riders, and especially MX racers.

Today I saw a couple of headlines. The first had to do with the health insurance companies coming out against Obama's government healthcare option, saying that it would mean the end of private insurance as we know it.

Obama came out and said shortly after that if private insurance providers were the best at keeping healthcare costs down, than why would the government drive them out of business with its plan?

The problem is that Obama isnt telling the american people that Obama-care is going to be taxpayer subsidized on top of what will be paid by coveree's, to make up the difference, and make it appear cheaper than private insurance.

Obama is out and out LYING to the american people, and pushing the hidden cost onto them, just to intentionally drive private insurance bankrupt so all we have is the government option.

Another BS part of this whole deal is the requirement for individuals to have health insurance, or you get taxed to hell.

This is another perfect example of how the government is overstepping its boundries.

And while we are are all bitching about that RIPOFF.the othe hand is about to steal your wallet
with CAP&TRADE
This will just add cost ie. tariff ,taxes penalties what ever words they want use to lul you into complacency.
The Union dups all support this as they think that it will save jobs. Just like getting unions to support the dodge and GM deals. they tricked them big time who will buy cars from a company with no dealers?
You think auto row is empty now wait until Crap and trade.
Then the Energy bill......Internet "security"bill.......Fairness in broadcasting bill.....

All anyone has to do is search Washington State and Massachusetts both public funded health care states and both right now are broke, all the info is there. How in the heck are we suppose to think Obama's plan will work?

My grandparents have lived in Canada for over 10 years now. They have dual citizenship and my grandpa follows American and Canadian politics very intently.

I sat down and had a discussion about this health care deal last time I saw him. Basically I just asked him how much of his paycheck was taken by the Canadian government to support all of the socialist programs they have up there.

He told me that OVER 50% of their pay is taken out in taxes...... how do you like that crap! Then after I got done reacting to that figure he told me that wasn't the end of the taxes. Canada has their own version of "Sales Tax" that varies slightly by Providence or region and I believe he said it is up around 12-14% depending on where you live.

So there you go.... you can look forward to giving over half of your pay to the government so they can "redistribute" it to lazy people who don't want to get off their unemployed overweight behinds and sink or swim. Why the heck would they bother to learn to swim when we send them their speedboat payment in the mail each month free of charge.

Then add on a healthy sales tax above and beyond the 50+% income tax and you never even see over 60% of your earnings.

Granted Canada doesn't have nearly the population density that the USA does so we may be able to pull off similar programs without getting to those exact percentages of taxes but I'm sure this wonderful administration will get close if they have their way.

Then add to that the fact that my grandma had to wait almost 2 years to get a knee surgery on their wonderful "free" health care system. Also, my grandpa said they still both pay for private supplemental insurance because the the wonderful socialist health care system only pays for procedures and medication that it considers "necessary" so they have to have insurance to pay for the other stuff above and beyond that.

a canadian told me the same thing, thats why they come here because they would die from some things because of the wait time

With the utmost of respect due to everyone above this post (and in the countless others), and I sincerely mean no disrespect to anyone....

"Did we bitch and moan this much when Dubya Kicked everyones asses squeaked into the presidency not once but twice???"

Good Lord you guys, you sound like Chicken Little meets Negative Nancy.

Start attending your local Repub meet ups, donate some money, hit the streets doing door belling, (knock some doors down in Olympia, TED and get some stuff done! But for Christ' sake, quit the crying and bitching. I knew that we were going to see some of this, but lordy, we are months into this. Get over it and get to work. Thats what we did!

If you don't like it, change it.

There's no way we ever bitched and moaned as much as you guys are.

P.S. Don't anyone take me out this weekend.

quote:

Originally posted by Vern#119:
And while we are are all bitching about that RIPOFF.the othe hand is about to steal your wallet
with CAP&TRADE
This will just add cost ie. tariff ,taxes penalties what ever words they want use to lul you into complacency.
The Union dups all support this as they think that it will save jobs. Just like getting unions to support the dodge and GM deals. they tricked them big time who will buy cars from a company with no dealers?
You think auto row is empty now wait until Crap and trade.
Then the Energy bill......Internet "security"bill.......Fairness in broadcasting bill.....

Vern, don't forget about EFCA. I figured you would be all steamed about that one....

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:
With the utmost of respect due to everyone above this post (and in the countless others), and I sincerely mean no disrespect to anyone....

"Did we bitch and moan this much when Dubya Kicked everyones asses squeaked into the presidency not once but twice???"

Good Lord you guys, you sound like Chicken Little meets Negative Nancy.

Start attending your local Repub meet ups, donate some money, hit the streets doing door belling, (knock some doors down in Olympia, TED and get some stuff done! But for Christ' sake, quit the crying and bitching. I knew that we were going to see some of this, but lordy, we are months into this. Get over it and get to work.

If you don't like it, change it.

There's no way we ever bitched and moaned as much as you guys are.

P.S. Don't anyone take me out this weekend.

Has the federal government ever spent this much money in this quick of a time frame ever in History??? Maybe adjusted for inflation they did in World War II but I don't think any president has even come close to this much spending in such a short period of time. And he says he isn't done..... you know the health care plan won't be cheap.

Aaron is correct about conservatives bitching. In my opinion we conservatives get way more fired up over the issues we are passionate about in comparison to liberals. The difference is the liberals seem to slowly but surely chip away at an agenda until they get what they are after while conservatives get WAY fired up over an issue and then let it die before getting enough progress made to create a change.

Nathan, I've read that the war in Iraq in totality costs us about 255mil a day! Others I have read state that including reconstruction costs, it's 1.8 Bill a month! Of course all of that is spun to bolster national security.

But it's cool to be at war, so I guess we can't compare that to trying to build our infrastructure.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:
Nathan, I've read that the war in Iraq in totality costs us about 255mil a day! Others I have read state that including reconstruction costs, it's 1.8 Bill a month! Of course all of that is spun to bolster national security.

But it's cool to be at war, so I guess we can't compare that to trying to build our infrastructure.

Aaron, how can you compare building infrastructure to purposefully driving a huge portion of our economy out of business so that the government can have control?

Remember Justin, just like the Union, we are the government.

You are missing my point, or maybe I am not making it right.

For Example, I am an elected official of the union in which I am a member. (similarly to being a citizen of a larger community or country) I have members whom I have never seen come to a meeting or engage in any involvment come to me and tell me, "You are screwing me, the union is screwing me." However the leadership listens to the 100 members that come to every meeting, driving the 4000 members of the union in the direction that they want to go.

This might be oversimplification, however I see this first hand. As an elected official, I work for the members that direct me. I don't lead them. I execute their wishes. I cannot assume what the 3900 guys who don't call, show, or participate want. I listen to the 100 who are there every month.

You and I are the government. We determine how we go, depending on our levels of involvement. Take control, or hang on for the ride.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:
Nathan, I've read that the war in Iraq in totality costs us about 255mil a day! Others I have read state that including reconstruction costs, it's 1.8 Bill a month! Of course all of that is spun to bolster national security.

But it's cool to be at war, so I guess we can't compare that to trying to build our infrastructure.

Yeah I was referring to non war stuff. And I consider any war to be a complete waste of life and money but I'm not sure I'll live to see the day when countries just leave each other alone and quit fighting over religion, oil, land, etc.

What about the TARP and the program that was supposed to help Americans "restructure" their mortgages? Wasn't it called the "make home affordable" program or something like that.

TARP didn't get the banks to start lending money to consumers like it was supposed to and as far as I know a BIG chunk of the TARP money can't even be traced or accounted for thanks to some of Bush's boys.

Then Obama's "mortgage restructuring" deal is a complete load of crap. Show me one person who has changed the terms of their mortgage as a result of this program.... Dave Ramsey (financial talk show host and TV host) puts a challenge out almost everyday on his radio show for someone to call in if they know of anybody who has benefited from the new Obama mortgage program and not a single person has called in with a story yet.

Great points Aaron. I am in no way informed on this stuff enough to argue some of these topics but man the red side sure is doing a ton of bitching! I am starting to wonder if this site should be named northwest motocross bitching forums, because well lately that is all I have heard on here.

quote:

Originally posted by mx510:
Great points Aaron. I am in no way informed on this stuff enough to argue some of these topics but man the red side sure is doing a ton of bitching! I am starting to wonder if this site should be named northwest motocross bitching forums, because well lately that is all I have heard on here.

LOL Robert!

quote:

Originally posted by NaPalm:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:
Nathan, I've read that the war in Iraq in totality costs us about 255mil a day! Others I have read state that including reconstruction costs, it's 1.8 Bill a month! Of course all of that is spun to bolster national security.

But it's cool to be at war, so I guess we can't compare that to trying to build our infrastructure.

Yeah I was referring to non war stuff. And I consider any war to be a complete waste of life and money but I'm not sure I'll live to see the day when countries just leave each other alone and quit fighting over religion, oil, land, etc.

What about the TARP and the program that was supposed to help Americans "restructure" their mortgages? Wasn't it called the "make home affordable" program or something like that.

TARP didn't get the banks to start lending money to consumers like it was supposed to and as far as I know a BIG chunk of the TARP money can't even be traced or accounted for thanks to some of Bush's boys.

Then Obama's "mortgage restructuring" deal is a complete load of crap. Show me one person who has changed the terms of their mortgage as a result of this program.... Dave Ramsey (financial talk show host and TV host) puts a challenge out almost everyday on his radio show for someone to call in if they know of anybody who has benefited from the new Obama mortgage program and not a single person has called in with a story yet.

What is scary Nate is that not even the President and his party (dem or repub) can contol Wall Street. They are the REAL power in this country.

That is how you respond??

I've got one more question for Aaron or Paul.

How will you feel once the people you identify with (liberal / democrat) succeed in shutting down all riding areas and getting rid of ORVs completely?

Will you still support every issue with them?

OK, now maybe I'm out. I remember why I quit looking on this board for a few months now.... no offense to EW!

Aaron is right Goldman Sachs has been screwing people of this country since the 1920's

Billy

quote:

Originally posted by NaPalm:
That is how you respond??

Sorry, I'll be more specific, as things apply to me, as that is all I can be certain of.

I hate war. Enough said? Necessary, sometimes, this time? No way.

Troubled Asset Relief Program. How about 1950's pre-planned financial stragegies. I put 20% down on my home. I bought a home I could afford. I financed a low interest fixed rate. I looked at my home as a long term investment. Consequently, I have no problems.

Finally, my comment about Wall street was a response to your comment about Obama's mortgage restructuring program. It doesn't matter if the political parties, president, or Joe Q Publics all across the nation want it. If Wall Street is opposed, end of story. Its all about the golden rule you know?

Those who have the most gold, rule. Everything else is just illusion.

As for all of the problems everyone is trying to fix in retrospect, its futile. You prevent this stuff from happening going in, not try to fix it going out.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Aaron,

quote:

Originally posted by NaPalm:
I've got one more question for Aaron or Paul.

How will you feel once the people you identify with (liberal / democrat) succeed in shutting down all riding areas and getting rid of ORVs completely?

Will you still support every issue with them?

OK, now maybe I'm out. I remember why I quit looking on this board for a few months now.... no offense to EW!

I hate that the liberal party is associated with the tree huggers. But you know what, voting against the tree huggers directly votes against my best interest in just about every other aspect of my life. It impacts my ability to earn a living wage, it impacts my ability to provide for my family a comfortable home, and it impacts my ability to afford every member of my family a full and adequate health care plan.

That would be like me saying to you Nathan, you are a war monger, because you are trying to side with a political faction that will protect your right to ride. Look at all of the issues separately, not lumped together in a big group. Prioritize them, then jump on the side that will better your top priorities. Choose special interest groups (NMA, AMA-yuk, NRA, Ect...) to fight all the other shit.

Riding dirtbikes, although I love it dearly, pales in comparison to my family.

I'll admit to that all day.