Does someone need Bail Out? I heard that they are the in thing...

I like the family plan idea!

quote:

Originally posted by ted:
Sorry Paul you loose this argument.
1) AMA licence is $39.00. About 25% more than ours.
1B) To ride the SMC Fall and Spring series you have to buy an AMA licence. You can ride the whole P.R.O. series and not buy a licence.
The SMC series is not a big series. Long but not big in the sense of rider count and amount of contingency (they don't have any) and the amount of prizes they give away. It's a great series for the clubs and not so serious racers but a much needed series.
2) P.R.O. is the only contingency series that discounts the littlest bike classes.
3) P.R.O. is the only Contingency series that discounts the riders second class. Last year P.R.O. race fees were $5 per class less that the other 2 contingency series.
P.R.O. lests the Professional riders race for TREE.

What else can we do besides ask Obama for money to give away at the races.

Is that a Pine, Oak, or Maple? LOL... I started this so I will spur it on a little. What is the rule on an over-sized 125 in the 250f, or school-boy class

Ted you left out the part about how pros dont get paid unless they have a license and how you dont get series contingencies if you dont have a P.R.O. license. Ted you know I like your series and I am not dogging it in anyway.

510, where in Puyallup are you? I'm just off 104th and canyon.

quote:

Originally posted by MOTO67/204:

quote:

Originally posted by 216's dad:

quote:

Originally posted by mx510:
I am with Parker on this one. I think that there is no reason why a 250 2-stroke should not be able to ride in the "lites" class. If for nothing else it helps to try to keep the sport somewhat on the cheaper side for people trying to get in and for purists that still love and race 250 2-strokes. I do think that the 250 2-stroke is still competitive with 450s but is better suited to match up against 250fs. After all mx is 90 to 95 percent rider. And I think that there should be a 125 2-stroke only class which I think PRO and the AMA already have.

If you think its 90-95% rider (which I totally agree with) then why does it matter if the 250 2 stroke races in the 450F class?

- Because they wont let a 125 2strk race in the 450 class like they used to allow them in the 250 2stk class

Yeah I see what you mean they should let a 125 in the 450F class. At least I dont have a problem with that. Especially if you have someone on a really tight budget.

Paul I live right off of Canyon on 99th st ct e.

We are damn near neighbors

Ya we should hook up and go riding. I will ride just about anywhere and I am alay looking for people to ride with as not many people that live around us ride. As I am sure you know I cant go to Toes though hopefully soon steve will let me go back

quote:

Originally posted by M & H:

quote:

Originally posted by ted:
Sorry Paul you loose this argument.
1) AMA licence is $39.00. About 25% more than ours.
1B) To ride the SMC Fall and Spring series you have to buy an AMA licence. You can ride the whole P.R.O. series and not buy a licence.
The SMC series is not a big series. Long but not big in the sense of rider count and amount of contingency (they don't have any) and the amount of prizes they give away. It's a great series for the clubs and not so serious racers but a much needed series.
2) P.R.O. is the only contingency series that discounts the littlest bike classes.
3) P.R.O. is the only Contingency series that discounts the riders second class. Last year P.R.O. race fees were $5 per class less that the other 2 contingency series.
P.R.O. lests the Professional riders race for TREE.

What else can we do besides ask Obama for money to give away at the races.

Is that a Pine, Oak, or Maple? LOL... I started this so I will spur it on a little. What is the rule on an over-sized 125 in the 250f, or school-boy class

Its a don't ask don't tell policy.

quote:

Originally posted by motodrew295:

quote:

Originally posted by M & H:

quote:

Originally posted by ted:
Sorry Paul you loose this argument.
1) AMA licence is $39.00. About 25% more than ours.
1B) To ride the SMC Fall and Spring series you have to buy an AMA licence. You can ride the whole P.R.O. series and not buy a licence.
The SMC series is not a big series. Long but not big in the sense of rider count and amount of contingency (they don't have any) and the amount of prizes they give away. It's a great series for the clubs and not so serious racers but a much needed series.
2) P.R.O. is the only contingency series that discounts the littlest bike classes.
3) P.R.O. is the only Contingency series that discounts the riders second class. Last year P.R.O. race fees were $5 per class less that the other 2 contingency series.
P.R.O. lests the Professional riders race for TREE.

What else can we do besides ask Obama for money to give away at the races.

Is that a Pine, Oak, or Maple? LOL... I started this so I will spur it on a little. What is the rule on an over-sized 125 in the 250f, or school-boy class

Its a don't ask don't tell policy.

I know what you mean Drew, I just want to know what the rule is and that it will be consistent through the whole series. Last year it started out that the 250cc two-stroke was not allowed in the 250 class, by mid-series someone ( #97 Cameron Russel's parents) bitched and the rule changed. I can live with a bad rule just as much as a good rule, just so long that it is consistent.

I sure know how to stop a topic

The AMA is conteplating allowing for the outdoors... not saying they know anything but I think its not a bad rule. I have no problem having the 250 class be cc for cc no matter the powerplant, even if im riding a 250F. I have raced an RM250 and although a faster bike it was harder to ride. It's hard to beleive the 450s were built to ride with the 250TS. The lap times would be very similar for the same person on the two different bikes.

This whole thread is wack!

Two strokes fire (combustion/ignition) once per stroke meaning everytime the piston reaches TDC power gets translated from combustion to crank. Four strokes hit every other. Two's have holes in cylinder walls fours not. Port timing and size on two's translate to peak HP. I think even Paul can accept that. Add power-valves and add torque. Done deal. Cam timing on four strokes makes a diff. Add lift and duration and you get more add air and fuel for a longer duration all round. Basically longer torque and HP curves.

Somebody's gotta make the rules - which is best. HP vs Torque 2 vs 4 and by how much and which one. Rule makers have a job to do as do we. They make'em we complain. It's a job.

Me...I'm changing my oils, check'n clearances, and ride'n four strokes. I'm for 4's. Having said that NO WAY would I allow a 250cc two stroke to compete against a 250cc four stroke in a race. It's not fair.

I've ridden (as others on this thread have) 250 and 500 2 strokes 1968-1992 and for me 450 and 250 4 strokes 2003-Current. HP vs TORQUE is DIFFERENT! 4's make TORQUE and 2's HP.

Need to win a race? I suggest one matches ones skill to SUSPENSION and desire to STYLE. I'm a suspension guy but think I'll be-a put'n a Crower cam in my 09 CRF450R. My style is top end (grins).

That a good nights sleep and a Subway should just about do it.

P.S. OK I had to edit this thread (again). DANG!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Workman #21,

quote:

Somebody's gotta make the rules - which is best. HP vs Torque 2 vs 4 and by how much and which one. Rule makers have a job to do as do we. They make'em we complain. It's a job.

Ken you know better than that. How can you compare HP vs Torque? HP is derived from a mathematical equation after you measure the torque of a motor. Torque times RPM divided by 5250 I believe. That is why my 350HP Diesel will out pull a 450HP gas rig. Torque is what does the work. By the way Quizno's all the way!!!

It's all about the usable power, and wheel spin. I was not expecting KW to be on "that" side of this argument. Sure the 250TS has more HP but its chasing it's tail while the 250F is hooking up and driving forward. Not to mention the power curve is a lot broader on the F where the TS's power is harder to get to and keep there.

M & H that's good the whole 5250 thing (grins) but not so good as ones most favored,...should I say it (argh) maybe not. I agree with you completely motodrew too cept I want'em both. I want torque when I want it and HP too and I know the diff. I know it on paper and in the seat-of-my-pants. Paper's good but there's nutt'n like the seat-of-the-pants gett'n down the road feeling.

Drew I'm with you guy last year at Washougal aboard a most magnanimous and splendid Honda CRF450R world beater I was chasing two guys around in the 30-40 class (and for me that a leap). they were years-decades younger and still I stayed with'em as we went through all others like peanut butter. Ok maybe a bad pun, but true we did do it and I lasted longer in a riding a bike that had nominal torque and HP but most definitely signed off on top.

So what does it all mean. It means this. I want torque when I want it and HP when it's required. I was over at Toes, on the Jr. track, coming round that tree in the bottom section and it takes (for me) lots'a torque (450 kind) to huck the uphill-85'er but then turn around and watch bigger dudes doing it on 250F's. They're railing the 60'R 180 degree sweeper at the bottom where I'm a point-&-squirt kind'a guy and in the end we all make it and as far as I know nobody's failed. I want torque at Toes and HP at Washougal...keep reading.

We each do our thing. Some do it with HP and they say I-is-king other with torque and they say grow-some-thingy's.

Me I want it all and I want delivered in a way that I'm left grinning ear-to-ear from out pulling someone outta a corner (torque) and passing at peak RPM (HP).

I went for a scoot a couple years back in a Ferrari (you know the car). Never been in before one prior so when I got the chance I took it. I did'nt drive but the dude that did sure liked his paddle shifters and carbon fiber me I liked my 1965 Pontiac GTO more. Sure the Ferrari was fast but that little (three-dot-something-cc) six banger didn't hold a candle to my 6.5 (400cc - yep engine swap) 10.75:1 hi-octane, lead burning, neck jarring, girl catching, wonder machine Pontiac GTO.

HP vs Torque huh? Torque get's you started but HP keeps ya going.

So, I want it all HP and Torque and a good "Toasted Jalapeno, Onion and Olive Steak & Cheese topped with Chipotle sauce sandwich" (laughing).

ken 6.5 L would have to be 400 CI (cubic INCHES) man I know you aint talkin no little centimeters. ahaha

quote:

ken 6.5 L would have to be 400 CI (cubic INCHES) man I know you aint talkin no little centimeters. ahaha

Haha so true Greg but what I like more than anything is our differences.

I absolutely relish the fact that we are all different. I delight at how different we all are (Ted too) cept when it comes to MX. In MX it's all about Torque and HP and and and...Food and Exercise.

MX peeps are pretty cool.

why is it only 450 guys on here say I don't want 250 2 strokes in the 250F class.

I haven't bought a new bike since 2005 and it was 2 YZ's 2 strokes!

What I used to love about motocross was it was cheap and it's definetly not that cheap anymore every since 4 strokes became the norm.

I don't even see people out at the track I used to run into all the time back when 2 strokes where the norm.

I wonder what the number of entry's would have to say about this? So far to me the only thing that has progressed in this sport is the cost.