I can not beleive what I was seeing at horn today! Jumps that were so poorly desighned that it was a joke,no I can not call it a joke because there were so many wrecks and injuries that I could no longer stand to watch it!
I have never in my life witnessed such a poor job yellow flaging any where and I have been around!
When did all you riders forget who has the power? YOU DO!!!DEMAND flaggers on ALL blind areas!
Ted do not say you had flaggers every where! BULL!!! You had flagers trying their best to cover a large area!
How much did you make this weekend Ted?? You can not tell me or any other person you could not have found enough flaggers! How about you step up and pay what ever it takes to cover the track! You could afford $100.00 a day for flaging!!!!!
How about teaching your people which freaking way they should be looking when working a jump!!!!!!!
When did it all become about money Ted & Ray! You guys could give a flying freaking damn about the riders,it is all about the money!!!
How about going out and changing some thing when people are crashing every moto on the same damn poor set up!
How about giving a damn about the sport instead of your wallet!!! How can you freaking live with yourself with the rip off you have created? Oh let me answer,you had a huge check to deposit!
How about you Ray!!! How the hell do you live with your self knowing how many people get hurt at YOUR facility! You are the one in charge of making all of the track safe! Why not get off your freaking "I am RAY and this is my track",high horse and listen to your customers!
You are hurting this sport more then you will ever know!
I pray that you,Ray and Ted get your priorties straight! IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!! GET IT!!!
How about helping young riders to enjoy the sport and grow old doing it! I hope you both find that the truth really does hurt! Randy Dillman oh and here is my number 719-351-3023

Randy everyone has a right to opinion and here is mine.

The flagging. I don't believe that's Ted's fault. Why? Because I asked to flag. And from what I understood when I asked to flag, was that horn provides flaggers, and it's beyond Ted's control. So don't yell at Ted for the flagging, talk to the track owner/operator.

As for the quality of the flagging I didn't see anything to major of a disappointment. Perhaps they were not very experienced flagging. What can we do to correct this?? I know in CA they have the Brett Downey safety fund. It helps train track workers on how to properly assess a situation and flag it to the up most potential.

As for the jumps? What was so bad? I raced Saturday, I thought the jumps were the best part of the track. In fact seemed a lot safer that previous races I have attended out there??? So what was so dangerous?? The angle of the jump faces or the jumps themselves?

All in all we don't need to bitch, complain, and raise our voices. For the most part it's not gonna get you what you want, sorry. The best way to go about this is to all work together and figure out a solution to the problem, but throughout all that rambling I just read I can't quite figure the problem. All I hear is someone complaining of Ted's "Greed"

Lets figure this out,

Osaka #627

I just heard about the loss of an 11 year old at horn. Very sad for the parents... this is my worst nightmare. I always tell my son to race safe to race another day. If the track is not safe we need to leave the facility and express our concerns to the promoters. And the promoters should not hide behind the fact that MX is dangerous . We have made lots of flagging changes at OPMC via the Brett Downey Foundation. They have a video that is shown to all flaggers before they can flag. It has made a very big difference in the flagging on the track.
Do they have flaggers for practice days or is it pay your $ and take your chances.
We have not made it horn yet so cant comment on the track conditions.
Jerry

There were a few issues with flagging that I saw. when I got landed on the flagger did come down to help me, unfortuneatly he forgot that there was another gate coming round the corner.

I thought the track was good, the riders need to get their heads outta their asses. The +40 class used to be safe. I got landed on, dislocated my thumb, seperated my shoulder. There was no where to go and someone tried to double from the inside and took me out. I'm about 95% sure I'm done done. This is getting out of hand.

Osaka 627: Yes we do NEED to bitch and complain! Because nobody does bitch and complain even though they are scared to death on many of the jumps,is the reason horn has gotten to the point it is! Because Ray will not listen to his customer's is the reason we see all the wrecks and ER visits! Since when, do we need to have 2 riders in 3 weeks airlifted out of a facility? Since when, do we have to have children die? You may be an above average rider, I have no idea! What I do know is I have people ,lots of people, tell me they are sick of Horn and the risk there!
I am 55.have been racing since I was 14! I have never seen anything like the track record at Horn!
The City needs to pack Ray up and move him out!
When Pat Jaquish was doing the races how many air lifts did you see? How many deaths did you see?
I am glad you had a safe weekend I really am! I am happy for a safe weekend anywhere and we pray for safe racing always!
Complaining about Ted's greed! Yes I am! If it is as you say and it was not Ted's flagger's,then why did he not step up to the plate and say this needs to be fixeed! Thank you for be respectful of my opinion! Randy

Oh man, this is a dangerous subject. I was tempted to not even write about this but it is something that is VERY important to me. I will come out and say right now that I was NOT at this event so I cant comment on how things went down over there this weekend in particular but I was over there for a practice day not too long ago and here are my thoughts. For one there were a TON of riders there, and I mean a ton. Second, they should have broken the practices up probably at least one more time then they did, as the track was WAY over crowded with a mix of slow and fast that was kinda dangerous. And lastly, they could have used a couple more flaggers, at one point I saw someone go down way over on the backside of the track, on the landing of a jump. People were slamming on their brakes and running around the other side of the jump to try and make sure that he didnt get landed on, luckily he didnt.
And I also think that it is peoples right to complain and voice their opinions on matters like this, if people listen and try to come up with a solution that is how progress is made. I just hope that the promoters take a look at this and consider what we are bringing up here.

I see your point Randy. I do, I really do, but what I was saying about not bitching and complaining, is that by slandering Ted and Ray most likely wont get you very far?? Because then they're going to get defensive and put their shields up.

The way we should solve this problem is by politely asking people to voice their opinions, find the main topic, and assess the situation.

Now from what I understand you guys are wondering why everyone is getting so hurt at Horn?? Well that's simple, I can answer that.. The tracks a freeway with big tables in between... Hello??? Now it's not the size of the jumps or the angles of the jumps that are hurting people I believe. It's the SPEED at which everyone is hitting the jumps. As well ever since the "Bubba Scrub" got invented and popularized it seems as if everyone now days is flinging there bike one way or another of the faces of these jumps. Now if you ask me having a full gate (Which is not Ted's fault.) with 30+ riders on it going for the W on a fast track that's only 20 feet wide with turning table tops, doesn't sound like disaster then I dunno.

I may only be 20 years old, but I have been riding for a long, long time. I know quite a bit about that sport.

Horn 10-15-20 years ago, was a completely different track than it is now, the track you speak of is gone. It is no longer deep sand, it's somewhat hard packed now. It hurts more when you hit the dirt than it did then. The bikes are faster. We're hitting the dirt harder than we did 10 years ago. The jumps are bigger we're going higher than we were 10 years ago. The sport is evolving and is going faster an faster. The bikes are getting better. And people are getting more confident, and are able to jump things they aren't capable of doing yet, but the bike is. I think that's why people are getting more hurt. Just my simple "kid" opinion I guess.

Osaka 627

hey Brett what was the track like really, i know its been really rutted and alot of kickers the last few months and alot different than last year, last year it seemed to hold up alot better

I understand why your so fired up about this Randy I was kinda sick to my stomach all weekend thinkin about Trevor Fox..

This is a really great sport and people benefit from it in so many ways I know I have over the years but for that there is a huge price for admission with the risk your taking.. You can try to minimize the danger many ways but in the end your still hanging it out bigtime.

I remember one day prolly 15 years back I decided to count how many anbulances would show up at the horn races that day and the number was 12 that day no shit and thats a fact. Always seemed like at least 4 5 6 would show up at every race. Pat did a great job running the races he
was an excellent promoter my kids loved him.

The flaggers this weekend worked there asses off. There was so many riders out there that just ignored them I couldnt beleive it. They were jumping an passing with the flagger waving the yellow? I was thiinkng to myself if you do this then you should be at least docked a lap and the second time black flagged and if a third just get sent home. It was music to my ears when Ted got on the loud speaker and chewed some ass today it was definetly needed. If you know how to run a calculator and Really totaly understand what it cost to run a business then you would know clearly that Ray and Ted are not getting rich in this business.

Flagging is always going to be an issue riders need to respect it. Even at the ama pro level of racing i see the flagging is weak.

To Rays credit it appears he has tried to make the tunnel jump alot safer which he has by widening it and making the gap alot shorter.

If you want my two cents the only two things I see that would make it alot safer on raceday at horn would be punish racers that jump an pass on yellow and run the track backwards. Coming into the first turn being able to use your back brake might help more and coming over the tunnel jump from the opposite direction would be better its to tight and blind the riders need more track to spread out
before hitti g something like that all bunched up..

Sorry to hear you got hurt Paul I hope you recover well.
I was jumping the tunnel off the start to the right side and i saw you crawling scrambling it was scary looking i never seen a flagger but it all happened so fast like right now- we were all bunched up off the start going for it.. if your only 95% done then im pretty sure i will see you again on the line someday.. lol!

PS: please dont voice out to loud i dont want to see another track get permantly shutdown especialy horn because its really really good!
Thank you HRMC and P.R.O. for lettin the good times roll!

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http://www.keprtv.com/news/86692392.html
this link has some good info on the track saftey

I was at Horn 2 weeks ago for practice...

The track seemed very safe for both smaller bikes and bigger bikes. I almost hit a flagger running across the track on the backside of a jump 2 times, but that is another story...


So, my question to all promoters and track owners is this: Why do you feel the need to change the track right before the race? Everyone has the track fairly dialed in, then the track is changed and everyone has to learn it in 3 laps of practice??? Then you throw them out to race on it, not knowing the "flow" of the track. Montana has done this several times and now has it in its rule book that the track cannot have any type of renovation 1 month prior to race date. You won't believe how much we have cut down on crashes and ambulance calls. Most of our races go all day without 1 single ambulance call. Great feeling to say the least.

Just my 2 cents from a guy that's playing dirt bike for over 20 years...

God Speed to the little guy that died this weekend...very very sad to hear this.

Jason - Montana Guy

The only jump I didn't like there was the tunnel jump. TRA hit the nail on the head. Riders are bunched up at the start and hitting a jump right out of a corner is disaster if you are coming from the inside. You have no way but to drift wide. The rest of the jumps were fine. Brett also nailed it, the track is fast and everyone thinks they are Bubba.

Paul dont quit yet. I am going to be at the rest of the series and I really want to see you on the line with me again!

pro motos were 7 min. they cut the track in half like last year but this year they left it that way all weekend. Get rid of the unlimited motos and extend the pro motos. Thats my opinion. I won't buy the we can't lose that money excuse.

quote:

Originally posted by Pike 62:
Paul dont quit yet. I am going to be at the rest of the series and I really want to see you on the line with me again!

We'll see. right now I'm getting more an more pissed. I'm sitting here with a hand swollen up, a thumb that doesn't want to stay in place, it hurts like hell and none of my quacks can get me in until next week.

I feel your pain Paul. I am just getting over a broken shoulder. My quacks never did give me anything for the pain! But the pain doesnt make me want to stop riding.....yet. lol

Well I hope to see you at the races when I am up there. The only reason I am coming back up to race is to ride with my son and my friends.

Haney I agree with you on one thing......there are WAY to many classes!

Well at least you guys are talking about it! I was shocked at the number of riders with no regard for the yellow flag! Not only did they not respect the injured person ,they did not even care about their own safety!
If this was happening at Mabton,your warning was at the riders meeting! Do it one time and you will be on your way home! There is no place for this at a track!
Thanks for all of your 2 cents! Asian Sensation you are correct. It is a supercross track at out door speeds!

Tough problems and not easy answers. Yes there are things that can be done to "mitigate" some of the more risky elements of this sport, but at the end of the day....it is just inert dirt and the individual riders needs to know their limitations. Sounds harsh, perhaps.

I certainly have been beat up and injured over the years, and in the last 5 particularly. I take the responsibility for my injuries as I was the one making the decisions (twisting the throttle). I was even plowed into while down when flagger was not paying attention. This is the scenario that is the hardest for me, and certainly things can be done. Flagger training, jumps that have more visibility coming up to them, etc.

Some good feedback has been provide so far and I think that it would help all concerned if the comments where to stay focused forward and not backward….hindsight being what it is and all.

I am an old school MX rider and love the speed! I am also not a comfortable jumper, but have enjoyed getting better and feel that this is an important part of the MX experience. So, how to combine both? It can be done as I have made several trips to SoCal over the last few years and the tracks there do seem to be able to find a good mix. There are even some big hits down there that I find myself doing (in the 80 – 100 foot range) and yet I struggle getting comfortable on some of our local jumps. I get there in many instances, but it is a struggle. For me, it is typically about the run out or landing for me and knowing that the margin for error is acceptable (in this case room to over/under jump the first few times  ). Ok a little bit about how high I am spit up too.

I like Horn a lot and want to see it continue to be run by Ray. He has put a lot of effort and money back into the facility and the quality has done nothing but improve! Given unlimited funds I know they would lay out many tracks of varying skill levels and abundant flaggers, but it has already been said no one is getting rich off of Motocross or motocrossers (notoriously frugal).

Let’s make sure the responsibility for safety is shared and put a healthy dose back on the riders!!

More to come.

WOW interesting stuff. I just wanted to say thank you to Ted, Ray, Garrett I was impressed with how things went, yes there were some issues, but all in all great weekend. one ambulance though it is sad, for over a thousand guys racing.I was impressed! I think Ray has taken the track to a better level by far. Special thanks to the Martin family for loaning us a bike. thanks to everyone involved. GOOD SHOW!!!

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